Good day.

I’m new here and must immediately apologise for the length of this post, but I’d be grateful if someone can help me with a problem, please.

I’ve been making timer-managed live recordings of BBC radio programs for many years for daily consumption and, having eventually made the transition from tape to digital (Real Player) via the internet, I was delighted to come across the Beebotron (All Hail, mighty Kron!), which I’ve found to be particularly useful, especially for accessing Listen Again files.

Alas, the BBC’s inexorable move away from Real files is now causing me a difficulty, which I would welcome some guidance in solving.

This is my current recording scheme…

• Using Replay AV8, I schedule a week’s worth of programmes to record in real time, using the live stream .asx URLs obtained via Beebotron3.

• I use filenames in this format… 1R4 1130, which translates as… Monday, Radio 4, 11.30am. The date of recording is automatically added by Replay AV8. This is so that I can create multiple playlists for my Microsoft Zune 80Gb mp3 player that can be sorted easily in chronological order. (This is necessary to limit play-length time so as not to drain the Zune’s battery too soon overnight. Also, Microsoft have prohibited drag&drop in Windows and the world’s best Zune-ites have been unable to crack the firmware!)

• The recorded files are then copied into a holding folder and their .asf extensions are batch-converted to .mp3 using Leeos freeware utility - http://www.leeos.com/rename_extensions.html (This works a treat, though if files are played in Media Player an incompatibility warning pops up, though this can be ignored.)

• The files are then copied to the Zune via Microsoft’s clunky but obligatory interface.

This system worked splendidly for .rm files (converted to .mp3 via Replay Converter), but the Zune software is now messing about with the filenames. Sometimes they transfer as I’ve devised them, sometimes the radio programme title appears in the “Song” list, and sometimes it’s just the station name, e.g “BBC Radio4 FM”. The last two don’t include date & time info, so I’m unable to sort the list to make chronological playlists. This is my problem.


I realise that this isn’t actually a Beebotron issue, but it is a Radio one and this is the only audio forum I know of that isn’t populated by mindless music-heads, most of whom seem unable to comprehend why someone would not want to plug in to a costly automated music drip-feed system, let alone listen to speech radio, so I hope you can help, please. (I would ask Zune, but they don’t support Zune players in the UK and the various Zune message boards show nothing close to practical use in this context.)

If there’s a better recording scheme out there, perhaps based upon the Beebotron, that’s maybe simpler to use and will still enable me to listen on my Zune in date order, that would be the ideal solution. Here’s hoping.

Oh, and best to presume I’m technically bereft ...’cos I am.

Thanks in anticipation…

Monty (UK)

The first thing I'd check with your current setup is the id3 tags on the mp3s. These are fields which actually show the title, etc, and it could be that the conversion to mp3 is putting them in the wrong place.

You must have made this post while I was composing my own long post on get_iplayer.
Take a look and see if it fits the bill. The downloaded files have names of programs so it might be OK for you?
The one in my example post came out as "4_at_the_Store_Series_2_-_Episode_1_b007jw7y_default.mp3"

Welcome to the boards, Monty!

We're people, helping other people over here, so you've come to the right spot. Most of us are "technically bereft" here so you fit right in, at the very least we can all commiserate.

Hopefully Paul and Ralph can help you work it out this specific problem.

Good luck, and I'll chime in if I can think of anything

Jan

I have a similar problem (not a techie). I have been using Replay AV8 for many years to record BBC 3/4/7 programmes to listen to in my car on the way to and from work using the stream capture method . Worked a treat with RA but now the Beeb has now made life much more difficult. I have tried using AV8 to download using the new wma links. It works and I get a .asf file. When I try to play this in WMP I get a "file is corrupt" message. I don't fully understand what .asf format is. Montyzuk's message seemed to imply that all that is necesaary is to change the filename to .mp3. i.e. the .asf file is encoded as mp3. I tried this but same corrupt message. I've laso tried various convertors which promise to convert .asf to mp3 but they all reject the files.

I'm in South Africa and if I can't get this to work I would be forced to listen to local radio. I promise you, you would not wish that on your worst enemy.

Any ideas?

Grateful thanks to Paul and Ralph for your practical pointers and Janaru for your kindly welcome.

It seems my quick method of converting to mp3, i.e. simply changing the filename extension, was the culprit. This was OK for sound but it presumably didn't provide the necessary formatting (or whatever the technical term should be) to keep the filename in the right place in the id3 tags (which, I'm sorry, but I couldn't work out how to access) . Anyway, I ran the altered files through Replay Converter and lo-and-behold all is now back to where I want it.

The iPlayer batch file method looks a useful tool, but maybe a bit beyond my confidence/competence levels just yet! So long as I can leave my PC to record the .asx streams that I want and can then manage to zap them to my Zune, I'm happy, though should the day come when the BBC forces us all down the iPlayer route, I guess I shall have some strenuous learning to do.

Now, if any of you clever chaps can crack the Zune firmware to give us drag&drop, that would really make the Sun shine.

Cheers, Monty

Hi dwakerley,

After running the files through Replay Converter the warning message stopped for me. These were the .asf files that I'd changed to .mp3, but I would guess that was immaterial as the file content hadn't been changed. If you haven't got RC maybe someone can suggest another competent audio converter?

(At least you've probably got sunshine!)

Good luck,
Monty

Look for Format Factory, it converts almost anything into anything (though not lead into gold or cucumbers into sunlight).

Welcome to the boards, DW

"I'm in South Africa and if I can't get this to work I would be forced to listen to local radio. I promise you, you would not wish that on your worst enemy."

I'm in California....I understand THAT one!

Hi DW and Monty. Welcome. Slightly OT, but ...

To all members, if you have no worries of revealing your general location, it would be nice to see a few more entries on the User Locations Map.

. Ivor



The original and real cat with the swishy tail.
Accept no imitations.

Hear hear

And a jolly aloha from me too.

Tru


A commitment to Mod'nAdminlyness: I understand that ^{r-e-s-i-s-t-a-n-c-e} _{*i - s*} ^f-u-t-i-l-e.
I shall not be starchy, nit pic, patronize, commit misandry, be economical with the facts or be a pedant, neither shall I whine. I shall endeavour to abstain from gratuitous point-scoring off the comments of other Mods or Administrators and also from engendering a culture of BLAME, remembering too to give the benefit of the doubt. Everything in my power will be done to achieve a modest post count & share my smileys, sources & avatars,

Montyzuk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Now, if any of you clever chaps can crack the Zune
> firmware to give us drag&drop, that would really
> make the Sun shine.

There's always the Goon Show method:

Eccles: I've just broken my leg.
Bluebottle: how did you do thst?
Eccles: I got a big hammer and bang!

though you probably didn't mean crack that way...

I've been trying to figure out how to drag and drop the links from the Beebotrons Drama Page....they just won't do it

Yes, we've certainly got sunshine.32 degress today and that aint fahrenheit.

I have tried various converters including RC and Format Factory but they all refuse to convert the file, failing immediately. The .asf files I'm getting really do seem to be corrupt. You seem to be using a different method from me i.e. live recording rather than stream capture. I'm not quite sure what you mean by using the .asx files. Is this an example of the files you mean? I got this using the url finder. [www.bbc.co.ukhttp]. If so how do I use them. Do I have to tell RAV when to record them?

That link doesn't connect; certainly not in the UK. I tried various ways, but I got either 'Server not found' or 'Error 404', Then again, I'm no expert.

. Ivor



The original and real cat with the swishy tail.
Accept no imitations.

Hi dwakerley,

(For the sake of others - this post is mostly about using Replay AV8, just in case you'd rather skip it)

I couldn't make your link work either, I'm afraid. But let's see...

.asx is the live stream URL extension that produces .asf files, once recorded. If you go to Beebotron3 Lite and select "BBC Live Radio WMA Links" and then a station of your choice, when it opens you'll see the .asx at the end of the URL. (Well, at least that's what we can do in the UK, I don't know if it will work for you, so please say if not.) For example, the Radio4 live URL is...

[www.bbc.co.uk]

What I then do is add a scheduled recording to the RAV8 main screen. The "Open Recording Wizard" button shows the way, but I find it's quicker to simply open the "Record" tab, select "Stream Capture...", then "Add selection as new recording" will take you to the properties box. Add info as necessary in the boxes in the "Basic" and "Schedule" tabs and select "Stream Capture" in the "Recording" tab ... and Voila! (Where it asks for the URL, copy and paste the BBC's live stream URL from the Beebotron3 Lite link. You don't need to be streaming live to set up a recording, RAV will open the link when the time comes.) Tip: be sure your PC's Internet Time is correct or you might miss the broadcast.

To capture a missed programme, I simply go to the relevant Beebotron "Listen Again" page and drag the programme link onto the RAV8 screen, changing the filename to suit myself, selecting "Record Now" and hitting OK as many times as needed.

As I intimated in my first post, I've got RAV8 set to automatically record about 90-odd programmes each week, which is really handy ... and it only has to be done once - until there's a need to change the settings. I am having some trouble capturing the BBC World Service streams, though, so maybe they use different streaming protocols (or whatever the proper technical term might be) for their non-domestic broacasts, I don't know (but doubtless someone here will). I don't have a problem recording them via te Beebotron3 Lite Listen Again links, so it's no great loss - not for me, at least.

I could go on, but as you're used to RAV8 already I'd be in danger of sharing egg-sucking instructions, so, if you have a go and get stuck, come back and I'll try to help.

I hope this all makes sense!

I'm sorry I can't help further with your file conversion problem. Might it be worth downloading a fresh copy of RC in case it's corrupt?

Cheers, Monty

Never worry about "instructions" postings. We all have them, and they're quite helpful. I don't have that program, but I now know it's similar to the Total Recorder I'm using now.

I've learned a lot from K's Mythblog, even though I only understood about twenty percent of it

Thanks for the Total Recorder tip, Jan.

I've downloaded it but not yet explored too deeply. The free version seems to have more usability than the trial version of RAV and the paid-for version is cheaper too.

Both require purchase to get full pre-scheduled recording functionality, which I suppose if fair enough (until Kron & Co can come up with an utterly free alternative, maybe?!)

Yours from an almost sunny (just at this moment) south-west UK.

Monty

PS: I've fried my Zune - literally, by using a Dremel gas-powered soldering iron to change the battery - so all my efforts to improve the down- and up-loading of radio files are currently on hold. Aaarghhh! As it died, I swear I heard it scream "You've deaded me. You dirty rotten swine, you!" (no prizes for guessing the Goon character, Paul)

Ooo, Ooo, Ooh! Nearly forgot to ask...

Is there a kindly US cousin out there who'd be willing to help me out of a fix, please?

Because Zune's are as rare as hen's teeth in the UK, I need to source some spares (maybe a damaged one or two on eBay), but many US sellers will only ship within the US. If someone's willing to act as middle-man and let the package be posted to them and then to post it on to me, please, I'd be very grateful. I'd send you the postage cost and a small "thank you" via Paypal, if that's OK with you.

Sorry if I've gone too far off topic, but here's hoping...

Cheers, Monty

You silly twisted boy!

♫ Aypreel in Paree. ♫

. Ivor



The original and real cat with the swishy tail.
Accept no imitations.

Monty, sorry for butting in, and advance apols if the following is redundant, but are you familiar with Audacity. That's an entirely free recording software. It's idiot proof (no slur on you intended), thus even I am able to work it. Just thought I mention this, as I note you are talking about stuff that needs paying for. Audacity sound quality is, I have heard it said, better than some of the paying gear available.

Bests, and nice having you on the boards,
Tru


A commitment to Mod'nAdminlyness: I understand that ^{r-e-s-i-s-t-a-n-c-e} _{*i - s*} ^f-u-t-i-l-e.
I shall not be starchy, nit pic, patronize, commit misandry, be economical with the facts or be a pedant, neither shall I whine. I shall endeavour to abstain from gratuitous point-scoring off the comments of other Mods or Administrators and also from engendering a culture of BLAME, remembering too to give the benefit of the doubt. Everything in my power will be done to achieve a modest post count & share my smileys, sources & avatars,

I asked for that, Ivor! ... best make sure I keep away from water for a while.

Hi Tru. Yes indeed, Audacity's great - I've used editing often, but I've found that when I've tried converting dowloaded files from .rm to mp3, all I end up with is a fraction of a second's worth of intensified noise. The same has happened with .wav. Somehow Audicity seems not to like some files, but I've no idea why. I've not tried it with the new .asf streams, but if I do I'll post the outcome.

Keep grinning,
Monty

Tru


A commitment to Mod'nAdminlyness: I understand that ^{r-e-s-i-s-t-a-n-c-e} _{*i - s*} ^f-u-t-i-l-e.
I shall not be starchy, nit pic, patronize, commit misandry, be economical with the facts or be a pedant, neither shall I whine. I shall endeavour to abstain from gratuitous point-scoring off the comments of other Mods or Administrators and also from engendering a culture of BLAME, remembering too to give the benefit of the doubt. Everything in my power will be done to achieve a modest post count & share my smileys, sources & avatars,

I love my Total Recorder, Monty. I couldn't use Audacity because I don't have an internal mic on my laptop. I just upgraded to the Pro version a few months ago and they only charged me the difference between it and the Standard version and their Tech Support is very helpful.

I'll have to check out that Zune thing dahlin'....don't even know what it is

For Jan... the Zune is Microsoft's answer to the iPod! It's just gone through its latest incarnation as the "HD", but the 2nd generation 80Gb and 120Gb devices are still great to use, as indeed are the smaller, earlier, one's if capacity isn't an issue.

They are a bit of brick, being more-or-less square-cornered and slab sided, and are also quite heavy, mainly due to the harddrive and scratch-resistant real glass screen, but the GUI is bold and clear and the controls are un-matched (at least in my experience. It's sound quality, video and photo elements are also superb.

Many Zune-ites extol its virtues as well-beyond the iPod, but I guess it's really a personal taste thing in the end. Its only shortfall is the unnecessary complication Microsoft has built into the software for people, like me, who don't want to join their music club and only need to upload recorded mp3 files. Hey ho.

Currently only marketed in the US, Spain, France and Italy, it's nonetheless a great bit of kit for UK users who can put up with the downside. I've tried 3 different mp3 players in the past week and now can't wait to get my Zune repaired!

...but if anyone can suggest another excellent mp3 player, I'd be pleased to hear about it.

M.

"Its only shortfall is the unnecessary complication Microsoft has built into the software for people, like me, who don't want to join their music club"

WHAT!!! These comes as a complete SHOCK to me


Never knew what Zune was, though I have seen the symbol for it next to iTunes on websites, so you're explanation makes perfect sense now. I don't use an MP3 player, but I'll keep my eyes and ears open.

Thanks Monty

If I've understood correctly you are using the standard sation url and then recording the live stream at the appropriate time. Isn't the set-up each week quite onerous?

What I have been able to do in the past is to use listen again with the url finder to capture the url into RAV and simply download the show there and then. I could download as many as I liked in parallel. I can't do this any more and the realtime recording option is not really open to me as I take my laptop with me to work where downlaoding is locked down.

I was intrigued to see that you record 90 shows a week. When do you listen to them? Do you ever sleep? Do you archive the shows in some way?

Regards

David

Not really onerous at all, David. Once the recording schedule is set up, it just repeats itself every week, so all I do is collect together the files, convert them to mp3 and upoad them to my mp3 player. If the streams haven't been interrupted (and so no Listen Again catch-up needed) it now takes me about 20 mins to get the files ready to be converted. I then leave Replay Converter to do its thing overnight and upload the mp3 files the next day.

As for listening, that doesn't seem to be a problem (but then I am a bit of an insomniac). 90 progs is only about 50 hours worth ... and I do do other things at the same time!

Good luck with sorting out your own recording hassles.

Monty

(Sorry tfor the delay in responding, I've been away for few days)

Hey Monty, didn't know if you'd tried some of the Zune forums for trading parts and pieces and such. Found these two that might be helpful...

Zunarama

Zuneboards

...if that doesn't look like it will work for you, let me know, and I'll keep looking this side of the pond.

Thanks Jan, very kind of you ...though hopefully I won't need more parts as I've bought a couple of faulty Zunes from the States on eBay in the past couple of days. Here's hoping I'll have enough good parts!

I've scanned most of the Zune forums - and joined a couple. Thanks for looking. M